This is a continuation of my notes from the Saddleback Conversation Gathering.
These conversations are about issues that are relevant to the future of the church and are being held in strategic cities across the US prepping for the Lausanne Congress in Cape Town in October of 2010, where over 4,000 global church leaders will convene to discuss issues facing today’s church.
Instead of posting an entire transcription of the Saddleback Conversation, I’ll be posting the key issues addressed during the conversation and include quotes from each of the panelists, which included…
- Rick Warren, Pastor and Founder of Saddleback Church
- Skye Jethani, Managing Editor of Leadership Journal
- Kay Warren, author and activist
- Jim Belcher, author of Deep Church and founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church, Newport Beach
- Dr. Michael S. Horton, professor Westminster Seminary
- Jena Lee Nardella, Executive Director, Blood:Water Mission
- Miles McPherson, Senior Pastor of The Rock Church, San Diego
- Dr. Soong Chan Rah, author of The Next Evangelicalism
Justice has emerged as a strong value among younger evangelicals, yet sociologists Christian Smith and Patricia Snell in their book Souls in Transition state: “Few emerging adults are involved in community organizations or other social-change groups or movements. Not many care to know much of substance about political issues and world events…. Almost none have any vision of a common good.” And young adults today are less likely than their parents or grandparents to volunteer or engage.Is the rhetoric about justice among the young really a core value or just a fad?We have a tendency to segment or isolate our churches by age or generation. What is the best way for younger leaders to learn from the wisdom of older generations?What about the younger generation of church leaders makes you most hopeful?
Dr Michael Horton: Youth in our culture tend towards a moralistic deism. Today’s church leaders have defaulted on their responsibilities to the next generation. It’s increasingly easier to get people behind fads, but we’ve got to give them a solid grounding.
The Church shouldn’t exist as a peace and justice center – it should, rather, incubate, grow and water Christians so they can go out be healers.
In the Church we are made Christians to be ministers in the world.
Miles McPherson: There are people in all of our churches that are hurting. We need to ask them what they care about.
Kay Warren: We’ve got to make it clear that there’s a Scriptural basis for justice. Failing to provide a solid Scriptural mandate for justice will lead to it becoming another fad and not a holistic ministry.
Jena Lee Nardella: Most of the younger generation aren’t looking for a fad. They are tired of fasts and are thirsty for something more authentic. Because of how American culture has formed us we’ve had a hard time getting outside of our own selves. There is so much passion in the next generation and it makes an incredible opportunity for church leaders to offer their wisdom and experience. We’ve got to show them what it means to live the Christian life on a sustained basis because they live in a short-term commitment culture.
Jim Belcher: Our culture doesn’t like to suffer at all. The only thing that allows us to go through suffering is a strong sense of God’s calling. We’ve got to help younger generations understand the calling on their lives. There is nothing that can keep them from following it. When you talk about justice the world loves you. When you talk about Jesus the world hates you.
We have a generation that’s drawn into justice issues for good reasons, but what about the proclamation of Jesus… how can we make sure that doesn’t get lost in our good deeds?
Soong Chan Rah: The unbiblical divorce between justice and evangelism has left us reeling 100 years later. We don’t’ have a strong theological definition of justice. Jesus is justice. Justice is what God is moving all creation towards… compassion is what drives us towards justice and evangelism. We’ve taken a western concept and inflated a lot of definitions. What is our theological definition of justice?
Miles McPherson: When the world hears Jesus they think “Christians.” And justice is largely viewed as tolerance. The problem is that most Christians are not seen as being tolerant. If they experience Christ when we go and when we leave, then it works. If they experience Christianity [what we don’t believe, what we are against] we need to adjust.
Dr. Michael Horton: There’s a lot of unhealthy talk of living, being and doing the Gospel. Jesus Christ is the only Gospel. He did it. He fulfilled the law in our place. We keep running away from the Gospel in the name of mission.
Can you share your thoughts on the keys to discipleship in the next decade for emerging leaders?
Miles McPherson: Pain. To include conflict. To include differences. It’s one thing to have the information, it’s another thing to use it. Don’t worry about being politically correct, be biblically correct.
Kay Warren: Spend time with the next generation relationally. Discipleship has got to go into the depths of who we are so it changes who we are. It has to change us. Setting doctrine right is key, but we need to make it affect our lives and be changed by it, not just know it.
Jenna Lee Nardella: We have to have permission to fail. We are terrified of doing anything wrong. We’ve had prescribed rules. So much of our faith has been lived out in fear. We need intergenerational relationships and community. Our world is much bigger. Step into those questions with us. Our understanding and vision of the world is very confusing.
Jim Belcher: What things keep kids in the church? We’ve got programs, camps and entertainment. The two things that are consistent in kids who stay in church are that they see a pattern of scripture reading in their home and that they are a part of an intergenerational church. We put so much time and energy into developing programs instead of the two basic things.
Soong Chan Rah: There has to be uncomfortable element added to what’s been comfortable discipleship. You’re being discipled to be missionaries for the next generation. You won’t be an effective missionary, you’ll be a colonialist if all you’ve ever known is your own kind. Where are people experiencing discomfort?
Skye Jethani: We’ve been taught doctrines and been active in our faith but do not know how to pray. Not prayer as in petition, but in how to be silent.
The next generation is increasingly wealthy. What should wealthy Christians do with their money? Is money important to spiritual renewal?
Kay Warren: Money is important. We are to invest in things that are going to outlast us, that’s a fundamental part of Scripture. We’ve got to use it and invest it wisely.
Soong Chan Rah: If we aren’t giving up the money we aren’t giving it up for Christ. We will truly experience revival when we surrender our wealth and our affluence.
Jim Belcher: We are called to give a portion of our wealth back to God. It helps us to remember it’s all from Him and He uses it to bring renewal and to help people. We have passion fatigue because we’ve stopped giving and allowed the government to take up those needs. The church used to take care of the needs of their communities. Money is a resource to powerfully impact our world for the Gospel.
More to come!
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Photo courtesy of Randy Chen.
